spcrnr Open Thread for the Week of March 15 pdf
by matthew on Sun Mar 15 00:00:00 CDT 2009
Some of our most productive and interesting conversations have come from open threads where almost anything goes. Speaker's Corner is a topic that is dedicated to open-conversation about almost anything that's on your mind.
The real Speaker's Corner is located in the north-east corner of London's Hyde Park where public speaking is allowed. There is no immunity from the law at speaker's corner, and while the police tend to be tolerant, they do not allow profanity or unlawful behavior. You may be jeered, ridiculed, enthusiastically supported, or completely ignored. Now, what's on your mind?
by haydiz on Sun Mar 15 16:40:45 CDT 2009
Matthew,

I noticed a particular 4-year city council candidate was missing from the Herald & Review today???  Did they forget about you? 


Kris

by matthew on Sun Mar 15 22:14:26 CDT 2009
Yeah, my mom was wondering about that too. I'm guessing as a write-in, Ken didn't think I should be included with the name-on-the-ballot candidates. Don't worry, though - I'll give him a hard time about it at the council meeting tomorrow. Really I don't mind. Election day is Tuesday, April 7 – not Sunday, March 15...There will be plenty of news in the next three weeks.


 

Did you make it to the St. Patrick's day parade? We walked with the Democrats...My wife had never been in a parade before (can you believe that?).

by haydiz on Mon Mar 16 08:51:35 CDT 2009
No I didn't go to the parade.  My daughter had a music recital Saturday morning at Millkin.
by matthew on Wed Mar 18 09:44:52 CDT 2009
Congratulations to Pat McDaniel on the WSOY interview with Brian Byers - nice job! It was a good hour of real ideas and realistic, serious thought. 
 
The candidates for that seat are: Pat McDaniel, Larry Foster, and Marcia Phillips…Phillips is spending money like water (she knows it’s her only hope of winning), but in my mind the choice is between incumbent Larry Foster, and challenger Pat McDaniel.
 
Former Mayor Osborne and Dan Caulkins will be on tomorrow in the 7am hour, with Carey Grady following in the 8 O’clock hour.  And, of course, I’m going on in the 6am hour on Friday.  
by matthew on Wed Mar 18 09:47:03 CDT 2009
I took the day off from work yesterday, and did some door-to-door campaigning around town. I visited over 250 houses, met some really interesting people, and got to make friends with a few puppies, too!
by matthew on Thu Mar 19 11:26:29 CDT 2009
Dan Caulkins on WSOY. Wow! If you didn’t get to hear it firsthand, download the podcast from the wsoyam website. It’s the 7am hour. Wow!
 
Carey Grady was in the 8am hour. I listened to about the first 20 minutes…It sounded to me like he brought in a lot of notes…I’ll download the rest of his interview at lunch.
 
I’ll be in the hot seat tomorrow from 6am to 7am.

...Looking forward to it!!!!
by haydiz on Thu Mar 19 16:04:22 CDT 2009
6am?  Well, if the dogs wake me up, like they usuallly do around 5:30 in the morning, I'll tune in.  If not, I'll be sure to download the podcast.  I hope your interview goes better than Caulkins.  EEK!  That interview, it's a stretch to call it an interview, told me everything I needed to know about the city council for the past few years.  No wonder nothing got done.  Yeesh!  And what a scummy thing for Pete Paulin to do unexpectedly.  He's entitled to his opinion and should feel free to express it, but that wasn't the time.  I bet most people in Decatur don't give a flying fig about the responsible bidder ordinance.  We've got more pressing problems. I give Caulkins credit for staying through that beating.  His military background must have come in handy.

Anyway, good luck Matthew!!!

Kris
by Big Fish on Thu Mar 19 20:26:55 CDT 2009
I'm not surprised at all that Byers was a jerk to Caulkins.  That's to be expected of him.  What I can't believe is Osborne.  He claims to be the cheerleader for Decatur, but now he spends his spare time on Byers' show on Thursday's saying any kind of garbage he can toward anyone who didn't follow him and Garman during his time as mayor.  It's incredible!  I thought he left the council because of health problems?  I guess he's better.  He seems to have plenty of time now to have his opinions and broadcast them on his little friends show.  Caulkins should write off Byers and his sideshow.  They'll hammer him wheather he goes on the air or not, so he shouldn't waste his time.
by Sue on Thu Mar 19 21:52:34 CDT 2009
A couple comments:
 
First good luck tomorrow Matthew - I’ll be up and listening - it is a rare day I am not.
 
When you have time if you would write up why you support the “responsible bidder ordinance”. You or anyone I’d just like to hear more on the pros and cons. I’m generally pro union but I like to understand why…
 
As I’ve said just a few times - I like Dan!!! And I thought he did great under fire. I don’t agree with him on everything but the very things Byers puts him down for are usually what I like most about him. I always considered one of his strengths to be the fact that he digs in checks things out for himself and is not afraid to ask questions and often does not come up with a quick and simple yes or no answer regarding complex issues. I go with the philosophy that “the only stupid question is one you didn’t ask”. Brian has a great show and offers a wonderful service by giving so much time to local politics and issues but he tends to “frame” everything. It’s his show so that’s his right. Anyway what Dan said made sense to me….
 
I was impressed with Grady. I like his stands and tone. Have not made my mind up though…..
 
Pat McDaniel has the cutest add I think I’ve ever seen in the Tribune!   You need to check it out! 
 
To be totally honest I am really impressed with the quality of ALL the candidates running for city council this time. They seem to be really class acts and as a community we are very very lucky to have this many good people who care this much to be willing to give their time.
 
Sue
by haydiz on Fri Mar 20 07:50:36 CDT 2009
Matthew,

I only caught the last half-hour of the interview but I think you did a good job.  I hope the first half wasn't about tin-hatted basement dwelling bloggers.  ;-)  I'll have to listen to the podcast later today.  On the responsible bidder ordinance, I agree that there should be a floor to allow smaller contractors to work on smaller projects.  I don't know what the minimum should be, but a lot more than $10,000. 

I do disagree with Brian on the hybrid form of government.  I understand his position, and yours, that people could "have agendas" in such a system, but we have that now.  The only agendas people would have, if they're representating neighborhoods, is to make sure the roads, sidewalks, sewers, and safety issues are taken care of in their district.  I can live with those kinds of agendas.  Some agendas are good.  I don't know how anyone can look at our inner city and think it has been represented well in the past several years.  It clearly hasn't.  I think the council has been more responsive because neighborhood groups and ChangeDecatur forced them to take a more serious look at our inner city, but they sure were neglecting a large chunk of it before.  I don't know how anyone can look at Eldordo Street or Jasper Street and think that they've been maintained well over the years, as a couple obvious examples.

I don't think 9 people would be too much on the council.  I agree 20 would be way too much.  I don't think the strong mayoral form is right for a city our size, but I couldn't vote for anyone that wouldn't be open to more representation.  I think the only reason some people are against a hyrbrid form is, they're afraid of the type of people that would be elected.  The Chamber is against it for obvious reasons; the most obvous being they'd have less of a chance to control the council with Chamber backed members.  They have an agenda.  I think their agenda is important too, but so are neighborhoods.  I just want to reassure people that our neighborhoods, no matter how poverty stricken they are, have smart, talented, good people who would serve well.  I've heard the argument that those representing districts wouldn't see the big picture, and I disagree with that.  We have people on the council now, who were elected at-large, who don't always see the big picture.  All I'd like is a voice for every segment of Decatur.  I know every candidate says they want to represent all of Decatur but I don't think history has shown that to be the case. I don't think that's a result of council members not caring enough, but rather, if you don't live in a certain area in town and know the issues first hand, you A, aren't going to feel the urgency to fix it, and B, you may not know the best solutions to fix it. 

That being said, I think you did a very good job.  I respect you for continuing on as a write-in candidate.  I completely agree with Sue that we have a lot of good people to choose from this time around. I'll make sure I write two T's on the line and fill in the oval.

Kris
by matthew on Fri Mar 20 09:27:47 CDT 2009
 Thanks Kris, it was a fun (and very fast) hour!  Whew - time really flies!
 
On the responsible bidder Ordinance, I agree a $10K floor is low, and a $500K floor is high. City Staff, the labor folks, and the non-union contractors need to all make recommendations, and the council should come up with a number they’re comfortable with. The goal is not to exclude small tradespeople, but rather to ensure the larger companies, who are capable of bidding on larger jobs, have a framework in place to grow the local workforce. In my mind, it’s a way of saying to a larger contractor: “We believe in you, we trust you’ll do a good job, and we’re willing to pay a fair price for the work you’ve bid on.  In return, we ask not only you complete the work, but spend a little of the funds by investing back in the community by growing the skilled workforce”.  I don’t think it’s too much to ask.
 
I’ll download the podcast at lunch…
by haydiz on Fri Mar 20 09:58:58 CDT 2009
I don't know the responsible bidder ordinance inside and out but here's my biased small business viewpoint.  Say for instance,  if my husband's landscaping business wanted to bid on a project.  His business is too small to be unionized.  It would  just be him, a business partner, me and family members doing the work.  I can tell you that $10,000 isn't much when doing a landscaping project.  The materials alone on a retaining wall can be that high, without even considering labor costs.  I don't think it would be fair to excude a small business like ours.  Yes, that's biased but I think it's a fair point.  We don't want to exclude small businesses and prevent them from growing.  I do believe that bigger projects, certainly building construction, should be done by highly trained people.  I think you made a very good point about spending "a little of the funds by investing back in the community by growing the skilled workforce."   I hope the ordinace is written in a fair way and that's where I agree with Caulkins' viewpoint.  I don't know how a council member can say they are going to vote for something before it's been written without those important exceptions and conditions.  I hope the city takes their time writing it in a fair way to benefit both small and large businesses.

Kris 
by matthew on Fri Mar 20 11:15:54 CDT 2009
The council meets on March 30th and April 6th, and it’s in several members’ interests to get Responsible Bidder settled before the election. Come what may, I think Caulkins will turn into his old anti-labor self on April 8th (insert scorpion and the frog story here!) so whatever’s he’s going to do for “the unions” better get done before April 7th.  Passing RB the day before the election pretty much guarantees a strong anti-Caulkins turnout (presumably, he wants to win), and either way, I think the chances of Caulkins voting for RB the “lame duck” session unlikely...So March 30 becomes the magic day, and the meeting to attend. 
 
OK…Kris – What amount do you think is a good floor? I’ll talk informally with several of the city staff and council members in the morning to see what they think (or you can come on down and join us!).  Feel free to post here, or if you’d prefer hit me with an email at matthew4657@yahoo.com – that goes for everyone else, too.
 
Not to fan the flames, but did Pete Paulin do the phone-in today?  I was listening for just about the entire second half of the 7 o’clock hour, and didn’t catch it.  I have seen him at council meetings from time to time (I don’t know him, and I don’t think we’ve ever actually met) – but he seems like a nice enough guy. I listened to his comments on the podcast several times yesterday and again before I went on-air this morning. I have to say, even though I disagree with his position on RB, I admire the fact that he was doing his best (and went so far out of his way) to participate in the conversation.
by Doug on Fri Mar 20 11:24:22 CDT 2009
I think it is the Chamber telling you this is a Union only ordinance and its not.  It has to do with training and safety.   It only pertains to unions because they already have these things installed in their organization.  I think some contractors are upset because if passed they will have to spend some of their profits in order to have continuous training and place safety procedures that sometimes cost money to implement. If they don't want to lose their profits then their bid will be higher which makes the unions their competitors.  I would like to see them write up some point system and give preference to those companies located right here in Decatur.   All the union is doing is leveling the playing field and that has the Chamber worried. We all know its cheaper to get things done by short cuts, but if it puts any life in danger its not worth it and the city should not condone it.  Decatur actually has a business located here that will help companies with their safety requirements they should use them.  Richland even has a program to help businesses with safety I think.

Either way I agree I would want to see something written before  voted on it.

by haydiz on Fri Mar 20 11:35:45 CDT 2009
Uhm...well if the city wants to hire me to build a new website, I'd say I good floor is a million or two. ;-)  Darn it, they just redid their website!   I honestly don't know what would be a good "floor".  I don't know what the average costs are for different projects in the city.  I know $10,000 is too low and $500,000 is too high.  It would depend upon the complexity of a project too.  Some trades require more safety training than others.  Planting flowers doesn't require an apprentice program but building a steel-framed building or constructing a bridge should. 


by haydiz on Fri Mar 20 11:39:44 CDT 2009
I think you posted about the same I did Doug and I think you brought up a very good point.  There are safety training programs in town for workers.  Non-union companies could comply with safety training standards just as easily as union companies.
by haydiz on Fri Mar 20 13:30:03 CDT 2009
I hate to keep posting but I just listened to the first half of your interview that I missed earlier.  I would have to disagree on a couple points.  I do believe that there is an elite group in Decatur who wants to run everything.  I know personally that not everyone one the council is accessible nor responsive.  I've been snubbed by them personally.  Either they don't like me, think I'm stupid or not worth their time, but they won't give me the time of day.  I belonged to the Chamber of Commerce at one time, and I was snubbed there too.   I've watched those in the "inner circle" stick with their own and ignore everyone else.  I also believe that the public has been kept in the dark while deals for developers have been cooked up without our knowledge, often times until it's too late for the public to do a darn thing about it.  That being said, I'm not interested in class warefare.  I don't hold grudges for all eternity.  I'm not perfect either, but to pretend that there isn't a disconnect between those in power and the rest of us is baloney. 

I don't think the McElroy is an elitist.  I think everyone on the council, and everyone running for council right now, are good people.  But I think some need to step outside of their dug out trenches and meet somewhere in the middle with the other side.  That's usually where the answer will be found.

Kris

I'll be quiet now and just listen.
by haydiz on Fri Mar 20 13:32:57 CDT 2009
oops "the McElroy" is supposed to be "that McElroy".  Now I will really be quiet and stop posting.
by matthew on Fri Mar 20 14:16:14 CDT 2009
I listened to myself on the podcast.  …um…Really….um…I know better than to say “um” so often! (It was early, I was young) I also have a tendency to talk into the microphone ‘off-axis’, so I sound quieter/more distant than I really am. I’ll fix that April 1st.  
 
Enough narcissism!
 
Kris, your mileage must vary.  Who on the council did you try to contact, and what was the issue?  Go ahead, be a little mischievous, and put them on the spot!
 
When I first started dealing with the City, they didn’t know me from Homer Simpson (most city employees still don’t; they have no reason to!). ;-)  Even so, I don’t think I’ve ever been snubbed.  Frustrated by the bureaucracy a time or to for sure, but never snubbed.
 
As far as the Chamber of Commerce goes, I don’t know many of the members.  I suspect some I’d get along with, and some I wouldn’t.  I’d expect some would like me, and I’m pretty sure no matter what I’d do, some would not. Frankly, it doesn’t bother me…I think it’s just the nature of the crowd. (lol – and neither my wife or I are members!) So there’s my $.02!
by Sue on Fri Mar 20 21:54:58 CDT 2009
Matthew - Heard the whole thing and I thought you did very good. Many of your opinions I agree with - not really a surprise. I especially agree with a comment you made regarding considering paying more for labor that pays for training as an investment - very very good point!
 
I am strongly pro-union; the training they provide IS an investment in the future of our community. They provide good wages and benefits and pensions this too is an investment in our community. I believe in paying people who actually create something or build something or fix something or even sell something. Not in paying people who play around manipulating numbers and coming up with hair-brained schemes. The USA has become a country of managers (MBA’s) - we keep cutting the number of people doing the actual work and increasing the number of “managers”. This is no long term plan.  Also, cutting safety standards or benefits is NOT saving money for society as a whole in the long run because in the long run we (taxpayers and insured people) pick up those costs anyway one way or another. 
 
But I really have no clue as to the facts and details of the responsible bidder ordinance. (Maybe I should have read my council packet - I haven’t yet :-) My concern - I wouldn’t want it to affect projects that help residential or restoration projects? What if we were using CDBG funds to help low to moderate income people improve their properties and wanted to hire ex cons trying to re-enter the workforce to paint some old lady’s porch or rake leaves? Would this ordinance affect something like this?
 
Or the SEPT program (Safety through environmental Design) these are small grants - they provide things like a security door or motion lights. The grants are small (they were $750 and now $2000 I believe) and the city has trouble getting contractors who want to even do these…. 
 
Like you and Dan - I’d really have to have details and the ordinance in writing to make a fair decision as to where I come down on the RBO. And I’m very democrat and very pro-union….but I need details to come to an opinion. I also figure the questions I have are probably common so to save time and trouble let’s ask and answer them in a public forum. 
 
Sue
by haydiz on Sat Mar 21 08:02:28 CDT 2009
Well, let's see:  Foster, Stockard, Caulkins and McElroy.  Snub city.  I sent them all some questions about where they stand on certain issues in the city, for the upcoming election, and I didn't get a response from one of them.  I would have been satisfied with, "Thank you for taking the time to write me.  I will try to get back with you, blah, blah, blah.", even if they never really intended to answer my questions.  It's just a matter of common courtesy.  That really doesn't bother me that much though.  They all have more important media outlets to answer to than me, to say the least.  I realize that.  Maybe I should send them a question with a fake name and see if they respond.  If they know me from here or from my own blog, I'm sure I've rubbed them all the wrong way somewhere along the line.  Maybe the problems is, they do know who I am.  LOL!  Yes, it's a tad bit personal and petty on my part, but it still irked me to be snubbed.  I am human.

Actually, Steve Daniels has shown me far more respect than anyone else, even after we disagreed about the change of government last year.  In fact, the ChangeDecatur crowd has shown me more respect than our anyone in our city government. 

And I have witnessed first hand that those in the "in crowd" rarely reach out to the other side.  If they do, it's only for show.  I've never slammed the door in their face but they sure have slammed a door or two in mine.  I'm sure I'm not the only one in this city to have had that experience.  In fact, I know I'm not.  

Kris
by haydiz on Sat Mar 21 12:02:52 CDT 2009
It's me again.  I just wanted to make a clarification.  Dan Caulkins has responded to me in the past.  I had forgotten about a couple different times we've conversed, so to speak, online on the Herald & Review and other places.  I think that he has, on many occasions, gone out of his way to speak with the public, whether online or in person.  An apology to Dan for me being so forgetful.

Shad Edwards has also responded to me in the past but he's not running again.  Anyway, just my personal experiences.

Kris
by matthew on Mon Mar 23 10:59:44 CDT 2009
Well Kris your mileage does vary then!  Both McElroy and Stockard are more telephone-friendly than email friendly, but they’ve always responded.
 
With respect to Caulkins and Daniels - sounds like either A: you’re on their good side for now, or B: they think you can do something for them. (Yes, I’m skeptical when it comes to those two peas-and-their-pod). 
 
We saw several people at Panera Saturday. It was good talking to you all! One lady was wearing a Carey Grady button, and I really wanted to include her, but I couldn’t think of a way of pulling her in without “putting her on the spot”.  
 
Anyway – thanks to those who dropped by!  And thanks even more to those who early-voted!!!
by haydiz on Mon Mar 23 13:29:17 CDT 2009
Matthew, you're sounding even more skeptical than me - and that's bad. ;-)  I don't think I can help get anyone elected, unless someone wins by one vote, and that vote happened to be mine.  So if anyone is cozying up to me in  hopes that I have influence over droves of people, excuse me while I have a good laugh.  I wish I had that kind of power.  Remember I supported Hillary Clinton and John McCain.  My Arizona Cardinals lost in the Super Bowel too.  I'm no lucky penny.  That's for sure!

I like all the council members.  I've always liked Stockard and McElroy is a good guy.  I have nothing against any on them as human beings.  There's no evil, bad-intentioned people on the city council. 

Glad you had a good event at Panera.  I only saw the end of the budget discussion Saturday on tv.  I'm kind of embarrased to even admit I watched a city budget meeting on a Saturday.  What more proof would anyone need that I don't have a life.  ;-) 

Good luck to you and I hear what you're saying.   I sleep with one eye open.

Kris
by matthew on Mon Mar 23 14:18:57 CDT 2009
 Well, Kris – I’m afraid it’s going to get even worse.  I’ve been browsing through the Illinois State Board of Elections website today looking at the new D-2’s.  It’s downright depressing how much money some of the interest groups (and individuals for that matter) are throwing around.
by haydiz on Mon Mar 23 16:28:10 CDT 2009
oops, "Super Bowel"?  No wonder they lost!  LOL 

I haven't looked at the D-2's but I'm sure it's depressing.  And all the yard signs.  I've never seen so many yard signs at people's houses.  I know Steve Bean said that not many people had voted early but if I go by yard sign count, there's a lot of people interested in the election.  And if I go by my yard sign tallies of each candidate, I don't have a clue who's winning the race.  They seem to be pretty even.

I'll be glad when it's over. 

Kris
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