spcrnr Open Thread for the Week of March 08 pdf
by matthew on Sun Mar 08 00:00:00 CST 2009
Some of our most productive and interesting conversations have come from open threads where almost anything goes. Speaker's Corner is a topic that is dedicated to open-conversation about almost anything that's on your mind.
The real Speaker's Corner is located in the north-east corner of London's Hyde Park where public speaking is allowed. There is no immunity from the law at speaker's corner, and while the police tend to be tolerant, they do not allow profanity or unlawful behavior. You may be jeered, ridiculed, enthusiastically supported, or completely ignored. Now, what's on your mind?
by matthew on Tue Mar 10 09:55:20 CDT 2009
Random odds and ends for the week –
 
On local politics – I was thinking about the next time the local media folks do candidate forums. I think it would be better for all the candidates to be sent questions, and be required to provide written responses before the forum.  During the actual forum, the candidates would already be pinned down to a particular concrete position. Doing that would also allow the moderator to manage time and the forum’s direction with questions like: “Candidate X, your published position on issue A is so-and-so.  That being the case, how would you handle this?”
 
I heard Randy Prince on WSOY this morning talking to Brian Byers.  Brian mentioned Lindsey Romano was working on an on-air 2, 4 and mayoral candidate’s forum the week before the election.  I haven’t heard anything about it so far, so I don’t know how far along it is…If you’re reading Lindsey, I’d like to participate!   Hopefully we’ll be able to get into a more depth than the previous forums.  
by matthew on Tue Mar 10 11:56:13 CDT 2009
Continuing the radio inspired odds and ends…Ken Lowe’s written a bit on the H&R blog here’s a link (http://herald-review.com/blogs/rollcall/?p=31)  
 
Well Ken, hang on to your hat!  On deck for the same level of silliness surrounds the phrase “The Brick Road to Nowhere”.  Never mind the West Main needed redone.  Never mind the improvements are in a TIF zone (I’ll argue it’s the most successful TIF zone in the city), and the money paying for the improvements are being paid for by those who live in that area. Never mind it runs through the historic district - so brick is in character and perfectly suitable. Never mind it links the downtown business district with the only four-year college in town, and by extension (and outside the TIF zone – and not brick!) to the largest hotel in the city. Never mind 25 years ago you couldn’t walk from Downtown to Millikin during daylight hours without dodging needles, broken bottles, and keeping a constant look out over your shoulder (I was a student at the time, and had to do it…Remember when the old Ambassador hotel was a MU dorm? There was a “safety shuttle” that didn’t always run on time, and if you were brave and in a hurry you could walk).  
 
I think it’s strange how no one seems to remember those bad old days now. We are not the city we were in 1973, or 1988, or even 2005.
by Pat McDaniel on Tue Mar 10 13:21:56 CDT 2009
My friend Matthrew,

I have to disagree with you on your Candidate Forum and about "how West Main Street use to be":

I believe like you, I included in my Candidate Press Release Packet back in December that was handed out to the media representatives that came to our joint Press Conference my suggestions and opinions on topics dealing with the community and city issues. I even dropped off both yours and my media packets to media outlets that were unable  (or not interested) that same day.

Several of my opinions on topic questions that have been brought up during two of the recent Candidate Forums are listed in my Media Packet, so I am on record way back in December.


1. I don't think candidate forum hosts should let candidates know what the forum questions will be before a forum. Allowing candidates to know what the questions are before hand or also submit answers to those questions before hand will not really give you a "a good feel" on what a candidate realy knows about the issues.  I have already wittnessed in this election cycle forums, as well as one four years ago, candidates who read off their "answers " to questions asked. Either they knew the questions before hand or they anticpated "the questions".

I believe not knowing "what the questions"  are before hand makes a candidate "think on his or her feet". A candidate running for any office should already know the issues that face a community. The candidate should have studied those issues and have come up with their solutions or opinions long before they entered a race.

2. I have lived in the westend for thirty years and spent a lot of time walking to the downtown area over the years on West Main, Wood, Prairie and William Steets, and yes some of the homes needed some "tender loving care", but did not expereince anything like you talked about. 



by matthew on Tue Mar 10 13:59:53 CDT 2009
Pat, the problem with the forum is the same question asked 11 times, with every candidate given 60-120 seconds to respond reveals nothing about understanding. It turns into a sound-byte-fest, and that’s about it.
 
We both go through the packets, and we both know they’re often a hundred pages or more long, contain complex analysis put together by city staff, and should be reviewed and considered carefully. Ultimately I think votes should, as a rule, be decided by rational deliberation, with what’s best for the community in the long run in mind. I could see a comment-of-fact from a member of the community or a last-minute significant point made by a council member causing the council to “table” a vote in order to give city staff time to the incorporate the new data/point-of-view, and build a better picture to the council. 
 
Council members who are comfortable flipping 180 degrees on an issue over the span of a few minutes, no matter how fast-on-their-feet they may think, worry me!
 
On West Main – your mileage apparently varies (lol – you’re probably braver than me, too!). My adventures in walking between 200 and 1100 West Main Street come from the mid 80’s. From my point of view, we’ve come a long way…And that’s a very good thing.
by haydiz on Tue Mar 10 14:01:12 CDT 2009
This is an interesting discussion.  I was just going to write something about what I had found online about Millkin.  I'm currently searching for an online school to finish my bachelors degree and was on a college review site and decided to type in Millkin.  The school itself graded a C+ but the city was graded a D- and F by the majority of the students who had given reviews - even those who left very positive reviews about the school.  The students main concerns were security, creepy nearby neighborhoods, nothing for college age students to do in Decatur, and few job opportunities - even part-time positions.  One reviewer said that if you want to find civilization, you'd have to travel to Champaign.  This was from a student from the East Coast.  I can imagine the culture shock for some students.  It reminds me of a cookout I had at my house a few years ago,  I had invited my parents' neighbors and their daughter, who was visiting them at the time to come.  Their daughter was a teacher from the East Coast and in her 50's.  She thought my house and the food I cooked were so "Midwesterny".  She said it was the perfect Midwestern experience.   She thought it was kind of neat, like a culture exchange experience.  I've always thought that was kind of funny.  But it is good to look at Decatur through other people's eyes sometimes, espiecially for those of us who have lived here our entire life.

I was driving down West Main yesterday, after dropping my daughter off  for her music class, and I tried to look at the area as a parent considering to send their child to Millkin.  The Millkin campus is attractive.  I'd think Fairview Park was great.  The new dorm rooms, the new building Tuscany's is in, and yes the brick road, would all be plusses.  But if I were to venture off of West Main, I would start feeling a little unsure.

I didn't oppose the brick road.  In retrospect, it probably would have been better to have spread that money to a larger portion of the neighborhood.  Wood Street needs help too.  But I still think it was worth it.  I can understand why the city put money into the area.  I remember how creepy it was 10 or 15 years ago too.  Remember that neighborhood where the DISC is now?  Mega creepy!   I would not have sent my child to go to school at Millkin next to a neighborhood like that.  I'm sure a lot of other parents felt the same way.

Kris
by Doug on Tue Mar 10 14:35:32 CDT 2009
Question

How do you compare different TIF districts in order to determine that they are successful?  Is it always an apple to apple comparison?


As far as the over cost for the "brick road", does that also come out of just the TIF district or was other tax money used?




Matt I liked the way you worded it the last time you talked about the process of asking questions, I think you said to mix up the questions so it isn't such a repetitive answer.  


  Mr. McDaniel it may just be me but it seamed like during your debate with Mrs. Phillips she read directly from her notes, for the most part, which gave me the impression she already knew the questions.  (no response needed I am just giving my opinion)  I was really impressed with you and the way you handled yourself during the process.
by Pat McDaniel on Tue Mar 10 15:01:16 CDT 2009
Matthew,

I agree that they could have changed the questions asked at the H & R/Labor Education Committee Candidate Forum some what. I am sure that after two panels of candidates answering the same eight questions, the audience might have gotten a little tired "of hearing for the most part" the same questions and answers from the third panel.

My suggestion would have been (and the organizers did not ask for my opinion) would have been to ask the first candidate panel the original eight questions, the second panel would have been asked four of the original questions plus four new questions, with the third panel being asked four of the questions from the original panels and then four other new questions.

I believe my suggestion would have kept the audience "more interested" in the three panels of candidates, with fewer people leaving before the third panel even started.

Don't hold me to it until I do some checking (but I am pretty sure), but the construction costs for the "Little Red Brick Road" will all come out of the TIF District funding. The city did have to borrow funds for the TIF project, but the loan will be paid back from the taxes earned within the TIF District.
by matthew on Tue Mar 10 15:53:16 CDT 2009
Hey Doug,
 
I don’t think, TIF zones lend themselves to be compared in an apples-to-apples way. To qualify, the proposed area has to be blighted, and meet some other specific criteria. Basically, all a TIF does is formalize an arrangement that allows all taxes paid within in a particular area to be returned back into that area. 
 
So yes, the brick road was paid for by tax money collected from people who live in the zone.  Of course the other way to look at it is that everyone else in town (and the respective taxing bodies) got “shorted” the use of that tax money for other purposes. 
 
The idea is to raise the aggregate value of a formerly run-down area to the point that: 1 – people will want to live/work/invest in the zone, instead of avoid it. And 2 – Once people do live/work/invest in the zone, they do stuff that raises property values the TIF expires and the community-at-large enjoys the benefit of a better tax base *and* a better neighborhood.   
 
I think the Old Towne TIF is doing pretty much just that!
by Doug on Tue Mar 10 16:17:08 CDT 2009

Matt 


I understand the basics I just didn't know how to compare success vrs. not as successful.  I know your a big fan of TIF I guess I just don't get a grasp as to proof that it worked.  As I understand the new building that was built on the infamous "hole" is in the TIF also.  We need to have a cup of coffee and you can explain it better for me. 


The thing that really gets me confused is when I see an area such as out by the PPG Glass plant become a TIF district so that a developer can build houses defeats my thinking.  The area doesn't seem blighted and my impression is the developer is looking for free roads instead of paying for them as he develops.  I know it has nothing to do with what your TIF is but still confusing to me.
by Pat McDaniel on Tue Mar 10 20:06:59 CDT 2009
Doug,

Sorry, my last response was directed to you and  your questions.

I want to thank you for your compliment on how I handle myself in candidate forums.

It is never easy for new or experenced candidates. A responsible candidate must study the issues to be able to "half-way answer any questions" in an intelligent manner , and throwing in a little humor once in a while doesn't hurt. A good candidate should never have to read off an answer to a question (other than maybe an opeing and closing remark)



by Pat McDaniel on Tue Mar 10 20:07:03 CDT 2009
Doug,

Sorry, my last response was directed to you and  your questions.

I want to thank you for your compliment on how I handle myself in candidate forums.

It is never easy for new or experenced candidates. A responsible candidate must study the issues to be able to "half-way answer any questions" in an intelligent manner , and throwing in a little humor once in a while doesn't hurt. A good candidate should never have to read off an answer to a question (other than maybe an opeing and closing remark)



by matthew on Tue Mar 10 21:34:03 CDT 2009
Doug – sounds good. I won't claim to know everything about TIFs, and I don't want to give you the impression that they're the solution to every problem (they're not!) but when used responsibly they can be a big help to the whole community.

Also, is AFSCME having some kind of meet and greet for the candidates tomorrow? Someone asked if I was going to it today, and I didn't have a clue what they were talking about. Pat?
 

Back on my first ramble of the day – WSOY left a message on the answering machine at home, and sent an email with some details...So thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

by Sue on Tue Mar 10 22:59:46 CDT 2009
Here would be a couple of  my questions for any candidate - Matthew,  Pat,   or anyone else who reads this: 

What do you think we should or could do to prevent future situations like the 100 lots being purchased by the "unconcerned disrespectful investor" who would prefer to herbicide them rather than mow them?  What do you think we can do to bring up these areas so someone who cares about our city gets these lots?  

Walbash Crossing - we already made the committment financially to this area we have spent big bucks tax dollar wise,  now how do we make it successful?  It hasn't met the goals set for it of becoming a place of both public and private investment - so far it is purely public and pretty much just low income housing.

Any ideas on preventing the illegal garbage dumping that goes on through out the inner city?

Ideas on garbage service enforcement?
 
How can we attract people back to the core of Decatur?

Any ideas or thoughts?

Thanks,
Sue
by Sue on Tue Mar 10 23:03:15 CDT 2009

Oh one other question:  Anything we can do to retain the good citizens (both residential and business) we have in bad areas?

by matthew on Wed Mar 11 11:55:49 CDT 2009
Ah, Sue – The easy questions!!!
 
The short answer is easy and painfully obvious: Make sure local people value local properties more than “unconcerned disrespectful investors”.  What would it take to get you interested in buying one of those properties? It’s a small and simple item, but one thing I’d suggest is holding tax sales/auctions on weekends when more amateur bidders (better known as neighbors) could attend.
 
Wabash Crossing is another tough one. You’re right of course; the boom in private home sales that was hoped for hasn’t happened. Even so, the area is a heck of a lot better than it used to be.
 
Illegal garbage dumping in the inner city…If there are specific chronic problem areas, I’m for using pole/alley-cams to catch offenders in-the-act. I don’t think the Decatur Police Department will take part in any “Alice’s Restaurant Massacre” style adventures (http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/alices.shtml), but with a little help, I should think they, neighborhood standards, the various citizens watch groups and even us regular old friends and neighbors should be able to identify the offenders without impacting their ability to fight more serious crime.  Once identified, we could publish their names and the video in the media (and add another program to the channel 18 lineup), prosecute, and fine them. 
 
How to attract people to the core of Decatur?  You’re probably not going to like the answer...Thin the core out. Demolition is not always a bad thing.
by Bob Sampson on Wed Mar 11 13:40:17 CDT 2009
Hey, Matt:  Thanks for the link to Alice's Restaurant. Brought back a lot of good memories--yes, I'm that old and well remember when the song came out, was a hit, became a movie, etc., etc. It is one that really captures a certain mood and time. Think I'll play it for my students one of these days--course it will take about half the class but they'll like that--less me and more Arlo.
Bob Sampson
by Sue on Wed Mar 11 22:03:40 CDT 2009
Matthew, One thing we agree on completely is this: the “small and simple answers” are often the right answers…..   I’d like a little more effort on getting the lots to the neighbors IF they have a neighbor who is even a bit interested….I think it would benefit the community to somehow “encourage” neighbor investment in these areas. 
 
What would it take me to purchase a lot?   My job is not real secure so I’m not really wanting to take on debt no matter how committed I am to my neighborhood. I was willing to invest in the house next door and pay myself to demo it when it was in bad shape - I put in a formal bid and offered 6000, it sold for 8,000. My offer was with the plan to pay to demo it myself so worse case scenario I was willing to pay $14,000 (6+8) for a small lot in an iffy neighborhood. I think that is more than reasonable…. 
 
Maybe I’m wrong - could be -that was my personal max - at least the buyer fixed it up - but I wonder if our standards for upkeep were not so low if I wouldn’t have been able to get it for that and pay to demo it and have little more space better properties and in a VERY DENSE location up the value of surrounding homes. 
 
FYI there is not even room here there or here for a double wide driveway on my lot or the lot next door or the one next it to it. In fact they cannot even get a car to their garage cause the driveway is too narrow….
 
I think with some real thought, innovation and investment we could really bring up the values in some of these areas….
 
Regarding Cameras - I agree 100%!!
 
Regarding demos I agree as well - let me say why - inner city is WAY WAY too close too dense. We do not even have 2 car driveways some house have NO driveway at all. Times have changed most families have 2 cars if now more. The one next me can’t even a car get to it’s garage (the lots are too narrow).
 
My house is probably 10 ft from the house on the west and the house on the north - now being close is a great plan for neighbors clashing especially on noise issues.   To lesson police calls spread us out where possible.
 
The comments I make are not solutions but questions - would this help? Could this help? What would help?
 
Hey Bob,   I’m old too!! Love the reference to Alice’s restaurant - I still have my Alice’s restaurant cookbook - and I still use it!!
 
Sue
by haydiz on Thu Mar 12 09:09:01 CDT 2009
I think Sue has hit the nail on the head.  Many older neighborhoods don't appeal to modern families.  The lots are too small.  The driveways are too small.  The garages, if there is one, are too small. The houses are crammed together.  This makes for crowded streets and squabling neighbors.   Sue and I have discussed this before, but I worry about the sidelot program too.  It needs to be done in a way that doesn't make the neighborhoods look weird, for the lack of a better word.  There's some street that have more lots than houses anymore.  I was struck by how bare parts of Water Street are now.  How are we doing to redevelop that area?   That whole area is becoming very empty and it's in the middle of town. 

The thing is, there are very nice homes further north on Water Street before St. Terasa.  They have nice big front yards.  I think they're a good example at what needs to be done.  The Elms is also a good example.  The neighborhood has an attractive layout with attractive smaller homes.  It would be great if Decatur could entice a home developer to do the same thing in the now empty neighborhoods nearby.  I think a lot of young families and senior citizens would like newer affordable homes in town where it is convenient to live.  I'd really prefer that a developer do it instead of the city.  One, it wouldn't cost us taxpayers nearly as much, and two, private developers will build what sells.  They know home buyers' taste.  But the city needs to go in and wipe the slate clean in some areas so that it can happen.  The city is well its' way in this area.

Kris
by matthew on Fri Mar 13 10:59:18 CDT 2009

 

Yup. I dislike the idea of pulling down older homes with character and replacing them with cookie cutter subdivision boxes. The North Water houses are a good example…I suspect the big front yards are an artifact of demolition preceding the construction of the one-waying of 51/North Main and Water streets…When was that done, anyway? 
 
In randomness...
 
Is anyone going to the St. Patrick's Day parade tomorrow? I’m going to walk with the Democrats. If the weather’s nice, I may be able to talk my wife and the girls into walking too…There’s also lunch at the Decatur Club we may drop by just for fun.
 
Did anyone hear all of Julia Moore-Wolfe’s WSOY appearance this morning?  I caught the end of it – the part I heard sounded good. I’ll download the podcast at lunch and listen to the beginning.
 
I’m going to visit WSOY for an hour next Friday…It’ll be interesting.
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