I was wondering did someone record the debate and if so when and where can it be seen?

I wish it would be online.... I was hoping the H & R would put it on line.  Since I don't have cable....

Sue

Actually,  I missed most of Byers show this morning too - which is unusual.  Even though I disagree with him strongly some of the time I really like his show - the only place you can get that in depth knowledge of local and state issues.   In fact I credit his show with turning me on to Obama...  

I'm sure he is not done discussing it.   I really wanted to go.  But we had committed not only to a regular neighborhood meeting but we had kid stuff planned prior to it of making decorations for the tables and making popcorn for everyone in this new old fashioned Whirley pop I just got lately at Rural King!   The kids had been wanting to try it.  They never heard of making popcorn on the stove.  It was a big a success - when we dropped off the little girls on my block they said,  "this was soooo fun, I'm coming back next month"...

Still I hated to miss it....  I know a couple of our regular people were at it and I may call them and see what they thought.....

Sue 

Is there another forum for all the candidates to address issues?



I would really like to hear a rebuttal from Larry Foster concerning what everyone(candidates) felt was a wrong decision when voting on the leaf burning ban.  Marsha Phillips didn't hold anything back did she?  I laughed when she said if you don't like me then vote for Mr. McDaniel not Foster. Some how I think their is more to the story, none the less I would of liked Foster to be present, so that maybe I could decide for myself if Foster would cross the people a second time, and if he felt it was a mistake to vote the way he did. 

I particularly liked the question about the form of government.  Was there anyone out of all the candidates that was not open to looking at some kind of hybrid form of government?  I have never been a supporter of Change Decatur but do I agree it should of been voted on. It just seems to me that this group has had a huge impact on this race like it or not.  We  had a CM against Change Decatur and he was not given an extended contract .  We had a Mayor totally against Change Decatur  and he quit.  Now we have 12 of 13 candidates(not including Foster he was not there to answer) supporting a study of or changing the form by adding representation.


   
  Referring back to my last paragraph I am curious as to how the former Mayor and Byers will handle the fact that all but one(Fosters position is unclear to me since he wasn't their) wants to change Decatur Government.  Who can they possibly support now that it has been brought out to the people that no mater who they vote for change is possibly coming.  For myself there are 2 radio shows I refuse to listen too anymore first is Rush Limbaugh the GOP leader and Byers Morning show both are one sided and treat others like dirt. But that's what makes this country so great FREEDOM of SPEACH and the FREEDOM to change the radio station.

Yeah, I'd really love to hear the audio of the forum.  I can't believe the H&R didn't videotape the event.  They co-hosted it.  Maybe they'll have something on the site later.  So, there are 12 of 13 candidates supporting a study of changing the form of government?  Stockard (and McElroy) voted against placing a hybrid question on the ballot.  Now she's supporting it??? 

I heard Orv Graham's radio ad this morning on Byers' show.  Graham is Foster's campaign manager.  I can't say that I was terribly impressed.  It did sound very elitist in tone.  There were some points that I agree with, but it's really a slap in the face to all those who would like to see a legitimate change in our form of government, whether to a hybrid form (which I support), or a strong mayor.  I don't think the sky will be bluer if we make a change, but it was pretty much an ad talking down to anyone who would like more neighborhood representation - like we're delusional and stupid.  Anyway, that's the impression I got from it.  I'll listen for it again tomorrow.

I've been enjoying Osborne's insider stories.  They've been interesting. 

Kris


I have run it back in the memory bank several times and I'm pretty sure everyone was open to the idea of expanding for more representation.  If I'm wrong I apologise. Hopefully the Decatur Lawyer and official Time Keeper will have it on his show. I don't have cable so I will have to have someone dvr it for me. 

I haven't heard Fosters comercial yet glad, he had time to make one, or was it Grahams voice only?  I have been reading Trib. online also, which still makes wish I was a fly on the Mayors office wall during the process of ousting the CM and the Mayor resigning.   I will email you some info after awhile or in the morning.  One of your neighbors joined the group.

The radio ad is paid for by Orv Graham - not Larry Foster or his election committee.  (There's a "paid for by" line in the piece)...

Doug: Onthe first night Foster was on the council-this time- he said he was NOT on the council when the leaf burning issue came up. I  think he would tell the truth about that because it would come back to haunt him as dishonest if he did not tell the truth. I'm not for Foster, but to many things get said that are not always true.       I was not at the forum, but I was at the Monday council meeting for the first time in quite some time ago. The speech from Adam Ruderman was something else. The way I see it, he shafted all his other fellow employees in the city. Even the patrolman union guy was not happy. I agree that Garman should not have signed that without telling council, and someone from the city should have known something about that-that concerns me. But two wrongs don't make a right. And Ruderman did wrong by what he did. I think he only has him self in mind.       I'm glad the city is saving money on the health costs.   Matthew-keep up the good reporting.         Gilda.

Thanks for the clarification Gilda.  I could of swore Mrs. Phillips said he had voted against it during her tirade on Mr. Foster last night.          Sorry to the Foster campaign.

I have not watched Monday nights meeting yet but I will in a bit. Gilda i was never comfortable with Garman.  I didn't live in the City when he was hired but I never thought much of him just from his personality.  I know a little of what your speaking of with the Garman which is exactly why I would liked to of been a fly on the wall.  As far as other knowing I'm with ya there.  This is why I have been leary of some incumbents. 

I would like to watch or listen to the whole thing again.

Matt whats Grahams stake in this he isn't a Decaturite anymore is he? 

Wow Doug - you mean I am not the ONLY person in all of Decatur without cable!!!  I surely thought I was.   :-)

Kris you hit the nail on the head when you say: "but it was pretty much an ad talking down to anyone who would like more neighborhood representation - like we're delusional and stupid. "

This is one of my biggest concerns - call me too sensitive it's surely possible - but I have a real problem with the tone that I often hear that "talks down" to too many of Decaturs residents.    I not interested in living under a benevolent dictator no matter how efficent that form of government may be.  Many people in Decatur may not be highly educated but common sense widely prevails among us and everyone has a valid point of view that I believe we can learn by actually LISTENING to.  All of us are equal as citizens - we each have 1 vote.

It is no crime to not understand the ins and outs of city operations but most are very capable of understanding the important parts if it is explained to them.  I've always believed the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask....

Sue

Gilda

I think the end result was a shaft caused by Garman.  A conquer and divide tactic.  I don't thiink Rudderman is to blame, I suppose he is doing what he was elected by his peers to do. Unless I hear fireman saying he is not representing the majority I have to lay blame on Garman.  If the shoe was on the other foot the Police union wouldn't want to give up something they bargained for.

  So Garman signs a contract with the Fire Dept. ands tells no one not even the Mayor?,!?, knowing (he is the smartest CM anywhere) that it could snow ball into a problem with other City employees contracts.  If this was brought to light 6 months ago(the impretion I got was no one on the council was aware of the secretly signed exclusion clause) there would of been more time for the new CM or acting CM to get both unions together let them know the guy that made the deal took off for warmer weather and we have a problem lets work it out the best for everyone.  If that had been done then maybe Rudderman would offended the other city employees.


But I do see where your coming from either way its not a good deal for those stuck with the problem.

I usually am one to sit and read from the side lines, but our current slate of candidates and some of their rhetoric about "growth," "job creation" just does not appear to line up with previous career experience...

Has anyone reviewed the state and status of properties that Mr. Daniels is responsible for managing (Charles Daniels Properties)?  According to their website danielsproperties.com, there are three: The Pines Shopping Center 2200 E William St, The Colonial Place (formerly Colonial Mall) 1355 N State RT 48, and 2800 North Main.  Two (thanks digital decatur atlas) are in the Decatur Enterprise Zones (Pines, and 2800 N Main).  Enterprise zones are handled by the Economic and Development Corporation of Decatur, with different incentives given to participants to revamp and revitalize and encourage job growth.  1/2 of the Pines has sat VACANT for fnearly ive years.  Is this the kind of job growth to expect by Mayor Daniels?

Now, I'm not a commerical developer, nor property manager, and I don't know how hard it is to market aging shopping centers (look at how Northgate Mall has had its ups and downs). I'm sure it is not easy to land tenants and deal with their requirements, expectations, and needs.

However, the best looking of these prime properties is Colonal Place, and it also appears to be the most occupied.  I don't see much in "job growth" happening at the Pines.... how will that management style work for a city?

At CONO's forum, Daniels seem to be running a Mayor Daley... I'll run the school system... but I thought he was running for Mayor, not school board...

This is too cool check it out:

Jobs council would like to start garden project

http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2009/03/04/money/1039572.txt 

Sue

Isn't there a huge disconnect being sold to the community in this election?  Can someone explain to me how candidates can be in favor of bringing more jobs to the community, and at the same time, actively opposed to the Chamber of Commerce?  Isn't the Chamber of Commerce made up of the communities' current employers?  What message do we send to potential employers, when we disrespect our current employers?  How many employers will we run out of town, lulled by the campaign rhetoric demanding more, better paying jobs?   

Another laging concern...
There is new expressions of love, interest, and concern for neighborhoods being expressed by candidates.  And some have been present to neighborhoods BEFORE they were running for office.  However, many of the candidates, looking between a Decatur phone book (where their home address is located) and a neighborhood atlas (via Decatur Digital Atlas), do not appear to live in neighborhoods that have any form of neighborhood group or association.  One could wonder if one's passion for neighborhoods as a city candidate would at least extend to looking for or helping start a neighborhood group in their own neighborhood.  I also wonder if the interest in attending neighborhood meetings, CONO, etc. will continue on APRIL 8 and the days following, when our new leaders start their elected positions...

My Kind of Town and eastender, two very good points.  I wonder how much impact the Chamber of Commerce has on job creation?  I'm sure it has a role, but I wonder if prospective businesses really consider the Chamber, or do they look at our tax rates, available workforce, our schools, neighborhoods, infrastructure, etc.  I do believe the Chamber is an important part but there's other pieces to the puzzle.

Sue, I saw that garden project article yesterday too.  In my neighborhood there are the Garman Garden Plots.  There used to be sign for them on the corner of Dennis and Ravina Park, but the tornado in 96 blew the sign away.  The gardens are still there though ;-)   They are at the corner of Melrose and Willow.  It's for anyone in the immediate neighborhood.   A lot of neighbors are talking about growing gardens this year to save money.  I'll be growing a big garden in my backyard too and always have an overabundance of vegetables.  Once the Home Park / Ravina Park group gets going, maybe that'll be a good place for neighbors to bring in their vegetables, that would otherwise go to waste, and give them to neighbors who want or need them. 

Kris

Kris

That is an excellent idea don't forget that one for sure.  I planted a very small garden last year and had peppers like crazy that went to waste.

• Enterprise zones are handled by the Economic and Development Corporation of Decatur, with different incentives given to participants to revamp and revitalize and encourage job growth.  1/2 of the Pines has sat VACANT for fnearly ive years.  Is this the kind of job growth to expect by Mayor Daniels?

Sir I would say no to this question and refer you to Craig Coil he is the one to answer this question, he has more to do with our current lack of job growth than Daniels.   Why aren't you jumping up and down on Coil why hasn't he filled the city up with jobs  I know you don't like Daniels which is fine but why blame him for empty building he isn't in charge of anything........yet. 

• However, many of the candidates, looking between a Decatur phone book (where their home address is located) and a neighborhood atlas (via Decatur Digital Atlas), do not appear to live in neighborhoods that have any form of neighborhood group or association. 

Well maybe they are represented at the City level already why would they need to ban together they have reps on the coucil.  Not a very good comparison for neighborhood organizations.  

• I also wonder if the interest in attending neighborhood meetings, CONO, etc. will continue on APRIL 8 and the days following, when our new leaders start their elected positions...

Depends on which ones you vote for but honestly I think their are people running for council that are sincere CONO supporters.  There are even past presidents of CONO running can't get better than that.

• Can someone explain to me how candidates can be in favor of bringing more jobs to the community, and at the same time, actively opposed to the Chamber of Commerce?

Well its my opinion the Chamber is set up for business owners which sometimes have different views than lets say their employees.  I doubt very much if the Chamber would support the Local Unions and diss the actual Member would they.  The company I work for has dropped the Chamber because it really didn't serve us very well.  I really don't know how they help the only time we ever heard from them was when they needed money for a downtown party.  I'm sure at one tiime it was not the "good ole boys club" it is now.


Eastender do you have a neighborhood group?  If so why if not why?  No right or wrong answer just curious.

Please correct me if I am wrong.  I'm not sure where some here are getting their facts, but several statements are so incorrect, they should not be allowed to stand unchallenged.
I watched the Council meeting.  My recollection is that Garman signed an exclusivity agreement with ICMA - not the Fire Union, long before the negotiations for a separate 457 plan for firefighters.  When Garman signed the exclusivity agreement, there was only one 457 plan, and it was available to all employees, including firefighters.  The exclusivity agreement benefitted all employees, because as a result of it, no employee would be required to pay a "load" on their 457 plan investment.
Gilda is correct.  The firefighters will continue to have the option of investing in a 457 plan available only to their union, with no "load", but it looks like it will come at the expense of the rest of the City employees, who may end up paying a "load" to invest in their 457 plan.
And as for Garman:  I recall Garman securing a new contract, by a 4 - 3 vote of the council.  Thereafter, he resigned, stating essentially that he was rejecting the council's offer of a new contract.  After Councilman continued to campaign against Garman instead of on the issues, an exasperated Garman resigned before the end of his contract.  This is a good example of what has been going on with this City Council for the past four years.  Dissatisfied that they are defeated, the minority refuse to accept the will of the body, as reflected in the votes, and continue to pull in an opposite direction.  This is the change I see the Change Group advocating.  It is contrary to the democratic republic values upon which our Country was founded, and it is harming our community.


 

My Kind of Town

So you are saying Garman had informed all parties to the signing and now they are playing the I didn't know that game?  So your saying this is who's problem then? The Cities or the Fireman Union? From what I gathered form Monday nights Council Garman hosed all parties. I still don't understand how you combine the 2 groups, surely Change Decatur doesn't have that kind if influence and if they did why would they need to put anyone else from their group onto the council?  Who was defeated, and who decides the will of the body?  Was there some kind of vote or poll.  I will agree this council has not done a great service to all the people and yet some want things to stay the same and that baffles me. 

• How many employers will we run out of town, lulled by the campaign rhetoric demanding more, better paying jobs?  

How many more businesses will go out of business because not enough people in this town earn a decent wage in order to spend and stimulate the Cities economy?  Are you suggesting people asking for more and better paying jobs are just making stuff up?

Whats our unemployment rate?
Where should the unemployed look for work Bloomington, Springfield, Champaign?

• It is contrary to the democratic republic values upon which our Country was founded, and it is harming our community.

I agree when you have a City CM or a Mayor that does what he wants and decides what best for me then we do have problem with the values this Country was founded on. 



  

To answer the question: Yes, there is a neighborhood group in the neighborhood, and I try my best to participate in its activities as regularly as I am able... could do a little better... if I did not have bills to pay! LOL. I've already learn alot about not only the power of concerned citizens joining together to make their neighborhood a better place, but also how much better it is to know as many neighbors as you can!

eastender

Good I am glad. All neighborhoods should be united together not just for representation with our city, but because we should take care of one another. 

On the topic of the appearance of the  Pines shopping area. The area looked pretty good when we had jobs didn't it?  The town has many places that are not up to par. Drive down Pershing and look at the corner of Pershing and Oakland not too different looking than the Pines.  I don't think its fair comparing his MGT. style to how he could help the city.  An example would be why would anyone vote for Mr. Foster he is a financial investment company did he get amazing results on his portfolio's he sells?  I would pander to say no because if he did it would make headlines all around the world.   Was it his MGT style or his political thinking the reason?  Again I would pander to say no. Its just the tough economic time we are facing.  Unless your sitting on a golden egg somewhere it just plain tough out there, and I don't think the direction our current leadership is doing those struggling enough good.  By current I include the two leaders that threw in the towel.

it will be a long road to recovery for every State and City its just too bad we let it get this far.  Without more transparency within our government we are doomed to more of the same for many years to come.  How can anyone expect a citizen to know whats going on when the leaders are in the dark also.  I am pretty confident after this election things will get better, regardless who wins they have listened,  they have heard, and I have faith they will get the job done.

I agree Doug.  My vision of a neighborhood group is less political and more personal.  Neighbors looking out for each other, making some good friends, checking in on the elderly or disabled, having plans in case of natural or man-made disasters, and having events just for the fun of it, is way more important than "icky" politics to me.  When I first moved into the neighborhood, I felt isolated and alone.  I didn't know anybody.  I sat awake half the night scared out of my head when my husband worked the night shift.  Once I got to know some of the neighbors I felt a lot better.  Just having some phone numbers of people nearby was a great comfort.

Very well said Kris.  That should be our mission statement. 

Did you get my email?

Matt can you tell me examples how the Firefighters Union would even know about other union contracts?  Would all the bargaining committee's have each others contracts out and do a comparison during negotiations?  SO I am to believe the Firemans Union knowingly went along with knowing it was going to throw a cog into the whole negotiating process with the city of Decatur?  Was Garman the only person at these negotiations?  Did the City use the same people in both negotiations?

Who was running the City sounds very fishy to me almost to the point of corruption!

Doug, that's my point. You're telling me the Firefighters Union doesn't know what's in the the AFSCME contract? Or the police contract? Once negotiated it's made public and given an up-or-down vote by the council and union, isn't it? What? – Do you don't think there are “secret clauses” or something in the contract? Lol - There may be “buried clauses” but even then, they're hidden in plain sight (and usually in fine print).

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm not letting either side off the hook. The city's bargaining team should have been aware of the effect changing the plan would have for employees (they say they weren't). Likewise, the firefighters bargaining team should have known what they were bargaining for. It seems they knew the “ends” they wanted but they didn't understand the hardship the “means” would put on their fellow employees/unions. Now you want to make Steve Garman the big bad meanie in all this, but the story I'm hearing is that the “non-exclusive 527” point was not even under consideration when he signed the exclusivity agreement with ICMA.

 

You can spin it either direction.

Matt

I have been spun out..................I am writing in your name in every spot.........Good Night.

Let's clear a few things up.  Garman was NEVER present in any negotiation/arbitration sessions with Local 505.  I'm sure he gave the marching orders, but one of his asst. 's and two members of city legal were there, along with the high dollar attorney from Springfield who cost the tax paying citizens of Decatur thousands, and lost her case terribly!    This latest insurance report shows how much money the city has saved on premiums by going to Blue Cross/Blue Shield.  Garman, along with a couple of other former city officials, defended the previous insurance carrier to the very end, regardless of how much more it was costing the tax payers.  Was it because they were building a new complex in the infamous "hole" downtown?  I guess we'll never know.  Had it not been for Ruderman sniffing out these improprioties, we'd still be paying dearly for the other insurance carrier.  

As far as the 457 plan goes, this was agreed to early on.  There was no information brought forward by the city that Garman had signed this exclusive agreement, so there wasn't  a "cog" thrown into the negotiations by the union.  For crying out loud, the city wouldn't even meet with Local 505 until AFTER the previous contract had already expired! 

The biggest problem with Garman was that he was here about 7 years too long, and many (not all) on the council during his tenure drank the kool aid and bought into anything he was selling.  Wabash Crossing is a joke!  How many people OWN property there?  Last I checked it was ZERO!  Go ask the owner of Buffalo Wild Wings in Forsyth where he wanted to build his new store (which is packed everytime I go by).  He wanted to go into the Target area.  Garman said no because he wanted a high end restaurant like a J. Buck's to go in there.  What a joke. I could go on and on! I realize he's gone, but we'll suffer from the mismanagement  of this "financial genious" for years to come!  Let me close by saying that Ryan McCrady is a great guy, and I'm sure he'll lead us down the right road.  I just hope he's here long enough to get us there!

There was no information brought forward by the city that Garman had signed this exclusive agreement, so there wasn't  a "cog" thrown into the negotiations by the union.


Thank you Big fish.  This whole deal has the a foul smell of Chicago.   Too bad Garman didn't stay around to run for mayor like the ex-Mayor said he was.  Honestly I am glad they both are gone.

I must say even though its not in Decatur we go to Buffalo Wold Wings for a majority of the Illini away games.  It is my favorite American food restaurant.

Wonder why the Tribune doesn't print this story?

I love the Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant.  I thought it was just a fast food place when I first heard of it.  But it's cool inside!  The kids love it.   I wonder how many great restaurants we've detoured to Forsyth since those lots have been available?  Aren't we being a tad bit too picky?  The Target shopping center isn't downtown Manhattan; we don't need anything super swanky and expensive.  I don't want to see a biker bar with pole dancers, (some of you guys might like to see that), but I think we can find a restaurant that would fit midwestern, meat and potato, lifestyles, and it would be just fine with me.  If it's true that we told Buffalo Wild Wings to take a hike, that was a big mistake.

CLARIFICATION


Three people currently serving on council, were on council when the leaf burning ban was approved. Foster and Stockard voted for the ban and, now Mayor Mike Carrigan, was the lone vote against the ban.

This is what I read on the Tribune site.



Doug: Onthe first night Foster was on the council-this time- he said he was NOT on the council when the leaf burning issue came up. I  think he would tell the truth about that because it would come back to haunt him as dishonest if he did not tell the truth.


Gilda

I thought I had the correct info.  so my assumption is he lied if he told everyone he was not involved.

Doug: 

This appears to be one of those items Paul Osborne referred to when he wrote about the excessive use of incorrect "facts" on blogs.  Foster does not hide, nor deny, that he voted for the ban on leaf burning.  He still thinks it was the right thing to do.  He's been incorrectly accused of being one of the council members who voted against the annexation of the property which became Hickory Point Mall.  He WAS NOT on the council when that vote took place.

Common sense suggests that no councilman would lie about such things......they would be easily exposed.  Incorrect information in a weblog is hardly an expose', but nice try.

Orv

I think if you read top to bottom of the responses you will find that was my exact point.  As I read top to bottom no where did anyone on this blog accuse Mr. Foster of having anything to do with the HPM fiasco.

So I guess I need to know exactly what I tried?  The fact remains my vote is for someone that believes in representing the majority not what the elected thinks is right for the people.  So I take my apology to your camp back as I was correct all along.  Foster will not represent what the people vote for so why would I want to elect him?

Thanks for the input Orv

p.s.  I never burned any way that wasn't the point.

So I guess your choice is Betsy.

I am considering Pat McDaniel. The only thing holding me back is he is against the Responsible Bidders Act...as it is written.  I will get clarification from him on this issue.   Mrs. Stockard is not even in my top 5 for the 4 year race.

Orv....I think your team missed the boat by not attending the debate at the Civic Center.   Mrs. Phillips had strong words for Mr. Foster and Foster was not there for rebuttal.   Unless it violated the rules I think you should of been on the stage speaking on behalf of Mr. Foster.

Would you please fill me in on exactly what you meant when you said....."nice try"?