spcrnr Open Thread for the Week of February 01 pdf
by matthew on Sun Feb 01 00:00:00 CST 2009
Some of our most productive and interesting conversations have come from open threads where almost anything goes. Speaker's Corner is a topic that is dedicated to open-conversation about almost anything that's on your mind.
The real Speaker's Corner is located in the north-east corner of London's Hyde Park where public speaking is allowed. There is no immunity from the law at speaker's corner, and while the police tend to be tolerant, they do not allow profanity or unlawful behavior. You may be jeered, ridiculed, enthusiastically supported, or completely ignored. Now, what's on your mind?
by Eric K. Johnson on Sun Feb 01 15:04:59 CST 2009
We are correctly turning toward employing the economic system known as Socialism.
It's about time!...for economic revolution!
Capitalism =  Criminal Corporatism
The World is tired of Corporate sponsored and created War and the needless death, poverty,fear and insecurity it always produces.
We don't get the real news here on our magic(Corporate owned and sponsored) TV screen.
I frequently monitor news on all Continents and we are indeed in the midst of a Worldwide revolution that is recognizing the failure of Corporatism!
The World doesn't want to work for WalMart or Starbucks anymore.
Real change comes as a necessity.
We are seeing that change occur now because the Corporations have fallen over from bloated greed that is visible to everyone from the Top to the Bottom.
We exported and forced Corporatism on the profitable parts of the World and now their Citizen's want to give it back!
When the giant criminal Corporations fell over they exposed their hidden underside.
The smell was unmistakably rotten and the exploitative odor unavoidable...except to those who have become immune to the infected pustulent stench from smelling it emanate from Rush Limbaugh's dope hole for so long.
 When any thing or process stinks to high heaven the only solution is change...similar to a "ripe" diaper!
The rise of the Corporate Police State is over!
Power to the sane people!
Eric K. Johnson
P.S.
Matt, Is allowing one comment per person per day very close to total censorship?
Are you aware of how petty this quasi-censorship makes you appear...for what you really are?...a petulant person with control issues born of insecurity.
I can not believe anyone who limits or restricts free speech can claim to be a Democrat.
Are you a Blue Dog Democrat trying to hide your Republican part?
What do you so fear...will be said/written?
Are you still a Democrat who believes in free expression or not?
Your actions speak much more loudly than your flexible words!
For whom are you bowing?
Will you allow only one Citizen comment if elected to the City Council by way of write-in vote as well?
by matthew on Sun Feb 01 17:09:20 CST 2009
Eric, congratulations on posting your rant on the "open thread" of the week.  This is what "Speaker's corner" is for.

As the message says -you've hit your personal limit for the day  -  thanks for the contribution, now give other people a chance to share their thoughts in peace. 
Comment responsibly, and I'll be happy to up your posts-per-day. 

Actually, the "appearance of citizens" section of the council meetings gave me the idea to limit some people's daily posts.  In council meetings, anyone who cares to speak gets 3 minutes to speak their minds.  Not an hour - three minutes...  On this site, by default, posters get 50 comments a day (even me!...It's way more than anyone would ever use). 

Eric's tendency to post off-topic rambles pretty much anywhere has earned him a limit of 1 a day.  Some of Eric's contributions are good, and some are pretty far out there.  It's my hope that by imposing this throttle, he'll give us more of the good stuff, and less of the silliness.

I think it's fair.   
by cjdecatur on Sun Feb 01 18:47:18 CST 2009
Does Eric actually believe all this???  I have read some of his earlier posts and sometimes wonder if he has a tendacy to fall off the deep end on occasions.  Eric, are you on meds???  That kind of posting really scares me.  If you really believe this why in the world do you stay here.  You are entitled to stay...don't get me wrong...buy I can never figure out why people with your beliefs want to stay in the USA....maybe its because we are one of the few countries that will allow these rants in public.. Please have a better day tomorrow!!!
by haydiz on Sun Feb 01 19:46:06 CST 2009
Socialism scares me.  Look at Europe.  It's a Godless mess.  Capitalism has it's problems but it corrects itself in time.    Like my old high school history teacher always used to say, it's never a far walk from the castle to the outhouse. The corrections are painful but we'll get through this mess, if we keep our heads screwed on tight.   Freedom and capitalism requires risk taking.  Anything in life worth having requires risk taking.  We need safety nets no doubt; we'll always need social programs - but I don't want to see our innovative spirit held down in government's grip.  I don't want the government owning the corporations or sticking its' nose in every mom and pop shop.  It's a balancing act right now with the economy in such dire straits, but weak companies have to be allowed to fail and those with good ideas and sound business models succeed.  We'll come out stronger in the end for it.  

Just my two cents.

Go Cardinals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





by Sue on Sun Feb 01 20:44:50 CST 2009

I saw in the H & R today the article “McCrady shares city's stimulus wish list”

 

http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2009/02/01/news/local/1038862.txt

 

I was really glad to see this and consider these great choices.  I was especially pleased to see the dredging choice.  One I hadn’t thought of until others had brought It up.  Kris was the one I remember saying that but maybe others.

 

I also liked the road repairs - lord knows we can use them - Decatur bears the truck traffic of all the industries that support the entire Greater Decatur Region.  So our roads are always in much need.   And I use the Garfield overpass 2 or 3 times a week so if it needs repair I want it repaired!!!

 

So far I’m pretty impressed with this city manager….

 

---------------------------

 

Along the other line - I see my comments are limited to 2 as well.  - No big deal - it is your blog, Matthew.  I appreciate the efforts that you take in keeping it up and running.   And I know I have a tendency to run my mouth or fingers as it were…  And actually I’d prefer this not just be a 1 or 2 person discussion or endless argument.  It is a great forum to share ideas.

 

Like I said, It’s your blog - I have the right to create my own if I really want run my mouth - just too lazy to do that…. A capitalist has the right to be lazy as well…   

 

Sue

 

 Ps.   I watched PBS master piece Theater instead  "Sense and Senisiblity" and sent them some money to thank them for having something else to watch tonight!!

by matthew on Sun Feb 01 21:08:41 CST 2009

Kris - where do you get your information about Europe being a socialistic mess?  I've found in my wanderings just the opposite.  First, they're not Socialist, and the ones I've seen up close are not Godless, and they're definately not "nanny states".  They are different, - but not necessarily worse (or better) than us.  Isn't there some kind of old saying "A society is judged by how it treats its poorest members"?  (I probably mangled that)...If that's true, I don't think the good ol' USA would fare too well when compared to those European countries.  What scares you, and why?


Sue, on the max posts thing - It was my plan to bump it up this weekend - before other events pretty much ruined the weekend!.  I know you've got more than 2 good comments in you a day...Call me cautious, I guess... :-)  Sorry for any inconvence! 

 

by Eric K. Johnson on Mon Feb 02 00:55:52 CST 2009
You are entitled to stay...don't get me wrong...buy I can never figure out - cjay...

First,let me thank you for allowing me to remain in America.
Secondly,I'm pretty sure I'm not getting you wrong.
Your redneck so very tired "Love it or leave it" makes you a comically tragic caricature/dinosaur.
Thirdly,it's no surprise to me that you can't figure it out.
Keep reading my comments with an open mind(check closely to make sure it's actually your own?)...
and I will give you an example that you may use to become an independent thinker somewhat like me...with just a little more time/ effort on your part.
 My detractors seem to come with weak transparent tactics and then go...so easily I wish someone with more (fact based) argumentative ability would step foreword.
I fear my blade will grow dullerer?...or worse that Matt may restrict me to only one-half letter per day and won't that just teach me?...that Matt is a censor?.
The truth is still the truth even if told by a liar?
Just in case I am further reduced to a single word I will state it now.
Peace!
Eric K. Johnson
Workers of the World Unite!...tonight!
by matthew on Mon Feb 02 01:02:20 CST 2009
Well Eric, maybe tomorrow's post will make more sense... 
by haydiz on Mon Feb 02 08:08:10 CST 2009
Well, Matthew there was a column in today's newspaper about this very topic, albeit an opinion piece, but it outlined some of the problems that a "nanny" state creates.  Well intentioned regulations and programs can turn into overburdensome government intrusions into privacy.  Common sense is often lost as soon as government gets its hands on nearly everything it touches.  Most of the jobs in Great Britian are now created by the government and GB is faring even worse than us economically.   Nationalized health care has horror stories but so does having no health care at all - so that's kind of a toss up. 

I read the London Times quite a bit to get a sense of how other countries are doing and I think it's safe to say that the socialized route in Great Britian is panning out to be a disaster.  Once I get some time later today I'll do a little research and provide some links and hard numbers. 

On the Godless comment, that's the part that bothers me the most.  I don't know that it has anything necessarily to do with socialism but the abandonment of Christianity by so many in Europe bothers me.  That's just a personal thing with me.  It opens up people to falling for anything or anyone.
by matthew on Mon Feb 02 10:38:37 CST 2009
Excellent, Kris! Great Britain is the country I’m most familiar with, and I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Take the Times of London with a grain of salt – it’s a Rupert Murdock publication, and has a strong conservative (Torrie) slant. The BBC news service is better when it comes to straight-out facts.
 
Do you ever watch Prime Ministers Question Time on CSPAN? Sunday at 8pm and 11pm. 
 
Common sense is often lost as soon as government gets its hands on nearly everything it touches” – You’re going all Regan-y, and I have to disagree. The ultimate goal of government is service to the public – not profit.
 
Look at the World Health Organization’s numbers on healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP (we’re #2) vs. how our system ranks (#37) (the UK is 41 and 18). In healthy life expectancy, we’re #24, and the UK is #14. Japan, Australia and France are the top 3.    
 
On the economic side, I think the British are about three months ahead of us in the bailout cycle. Were you following the Northern Rock crisis? Also RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) rolled the dice on the US mortgage markets, and has gotten pretty bruised.
 
Ok, I’ll stop now and listen… ;-)
by matthew on Mon Feb 02 10:51:03 CST 2009
One thing I forgot – about the UK bailouts. They’re now finding ways to force banks to lend money to their customers, not just other banks. They’ve discovered when they inject a bunch of capitol into the banking systems the banks tend to lend money to each other (to cover themselves first), and put the borrowing public a distant second.
 
At some point in the near future – I can’t remember when – they’re hosting a meeting of the G20 to talk about implementing responsible world-wide banking regulations, too.
by haydiz on Mon Feb 02 11:14:18 CST 2009
Hold on Matthew, I'm geting all my ammo together for my rebuttal.  ;-)   There is a bit of Reagan in me, not much, but a little.  I'm much more like John McCain, who called himself a Teddy Roosevelt Republican - which isn't too far from a moderate Democrat. 

Here's a little snippet about TR which I can relate to myself ideologically:

"He distrusted wealthy businessmen and dissolved forty monopolistic corporations as a "trust buster". He was clear, however, to show he did not disagree with trusts and capitalism in principle but was only against corrupt, illegal practices. His "Square Deal" promised a fair shake for both the average citizen (through regulation of railroad rates and pure food and drugs) and the businessmen. He was the first U.S. president to call for universal health care and national health insurance.[5][6] As an outdoorsman, he promoted the conservation movement, emphasizing efficient use of natural resources. After 1906 he attacked big business and suggested the courts were biased against labor unions." ..... (From Wikipedia)

I don't think there's such a thing as a purely capitistic society, unless one beleives in social Darwinism and believes only the more financially lucky people get to eat, receive medical care, and live in homes.  In my opinion there needs to be a balance between capitism and socialism - tipping too far to either side isn't very wise.  I think that lesson has been learned many times over by many different countries.

Kris




by haydiz on Mon Feb 02 11:23:23 CST 2009

oops, pardon the misspellings and typos in my last post.  :-)

"capitalistic society" and "capitalism"

Did I ever mention I was an English teacher's worst nightmare in school?  If I didn't know the answer to a question, I would come up with something funny to write on a test.  That got me through a lot of  history exams though!  History teachers don't care about grammar and punctuation. If I made them laugh, I'd still pass the test. 

by Sue on Mon Feb 02 20:56:22 CST 2009

Off the subject - which by the way is an interesting discussion -  (I too appreciate the values of Teddy Roosevelt)   

I heard on Byers Friday that District 61 is holding a forum Tuesday night regarding Decatur schools - I'm very interested in this but cannot attend due to that being the same night as my neighborhood meeting....   

Not sure where it is or the details.   Anyone know any details on this or plan on going?  I'd love to hear more about it if someone does attend....

Sue

by haydiz on Tue Feb 03 15:50:34 CST 2009
Sue, I was just looking for information on the school meeting too.  Gloria Davis was on WAND a couple days ago talking about the forum.  I think the school district is wanting feedback on the single high school concept or whether residents would prefer modernizing Eisenhower and MacArthur.  I can't find the meeting info the district website.

Matthew,  for some reason www.blogdecatur.com is taking me to a page that says "If you're seeing this page via a web browser, it means you've setup Tomcat successfully. Congratulations!"   It started doing that yesterday afternoon.  I just found you again using my old computer which has an old bookmark. 
by haydiz on Tue Feb 03 20:01:48 CST 2009
Okay, it's just when I type in blogdecatur.com without the www that it takes me to the page I stated above.
by Sue on Tue Feb 03 22:46:32 CST 2009
I have to say at the risk of being tarred and feathered for it - I kinda support the single highschool concept.  I do equipment support for a business in a number of buildings and cities and supporting data/phones in older buildings is a time consuming nightmare.  They just plain were not built for it.  They often don't even have the power outlets needed and you end up stringing power strips together just to make something work.  There is no place for the wiring needed.  I can't even begin to describe the time difference you are talking about when you are working in a building that was built for this stuff and on that was not....  I'm a preservationist - I love old buildings and do not want to automatically abandon them because they difficult but...  I can see very clearly the point behind building a new high school.

Also while I'm being tarred - let me say I like the idea of using the open area between Water and MLK.  1st - our high schools today are closed campuses I believe, 2nd there is NOTHING there so there really can't be much crime (drive North on Water and take a look)  3. we already started investing our tax dollars here in Walbash Crossing and  we already made the choice to put the new GRADE SCHOOL of all things near this area - (right or wrong I was not paying attention when that choice was made)   at this point in time moving forward - we HAVE to improve the area.  No choice now regarding whether or not we WANT to improve this area - we HAVE to improve it.  We are already sending our kids there..... the littlest ones....

Sue
by haydiz on Wed Feb 04 09:24:40 CST 2009
I can see the merits of a single high school, espiecially in the area that Sue has pointed out.  There's not much there at the moment and a can envision a very nice campus with football, baseball and soccer fields - maybe even my little duck pond that I requested a few months ago ;-)  It's centrally located with major roads leading to it.  But then, at the risk of being tarred and feathered myself, I think about the racial component to a single high school in "that" area.  From what I can tell, Hope Academy student population is probably around 90% black, and I don't think I need to explain why.  I'm sure we've all heard the comments about the hood and whatnot and other racist comments about the area.  Will white families send their kids to school there or will they just move to rural districts?  There's a lot of that going on already.

Then I  worry about the current buildings and wonder what will become of them.  Yeah, they're old and out-dated but they're not in danger of caving in on themselves, (as far as I know), and if maintained properly could last another 50 years.  I'd hate to see two large buildings sit vacant.  Just what Decatur needs, more vacant buildings.  

I'm also interested in the suggestion of turning Stephen Decatur back into a high school again and then modernizing Eisenhower.  I suppose, the middle school students going to Stephen Decatur could go to MacArthur.  I'd like to see if there'd be cost savings in this idea and if the community would prefer such an option.
by Sue on Thu Feb 05 22:00:11 CST 2009
Interesting points....  You never hesitate to bring out the truth Kris!!  Yep - we've still got some racist stuff to deal with - plenty of it -  I'm pleased we have gotten as far as we have....  But until we as a community honestly and openly face our problems and perceptions regarding race I don't know how we can fix it.  

I too am concerned about additional empty buildings in neighborhoods that not many seem interested in these days.  How do we make those areas places of interest?  To me that is a key question.
by matthew on Fri Feb 06 12:15:47 CST 2009
 

This is an “odds and ends” thing, but I still want to say it: My thanks go out to the Decatur Trades and Labor Assembly for inviting me to participate in a City Council Candidates Forum March 3rd at 5:30pm. I'm looking forward to it!


 

At this point, I don't have much more in the way of details, but I'm told a packet is in the mail...I'll post more as I find out.


 

by haydiz on Fri Feb 06 14:33:44 CST 2009
The Eisenhower building is probably more likely to sell than the MacArthur building. St. Mary's could purchase the property for future expansion needs or maybe DMH could buy it.  We'd have our two hospitals competing near enough to each other for hand-to-hand combat.  :-)  Think of how entertaining that would be.  Seriously, the land is near enough to the lake to be a desirable location for investors.  Leaving MacArthur vacant bothers me because that area is already struggling.   A big ol' empty high school building wouldn't exactly add to its' charm. 

If Stephen Decatur were reopened as a high school and MacArthur updated to fit the needs of a junior high, that would only leave one building vacant instead of two.  I haven't been inside the Stephen Decatur building since 1989, but I'm assuming it's still in fairly decent condition.  It wouldn't require nearly as much updating as Mac and/or Eisenhower.

However, I'm not totally writing off the idea of the single high school in the Wabash area.  I'd need to hear more about it - the cost differences, community input and all that good stuff.

----

On a totally different subject, I noticed that the park district is considering closing all or part of the Nelson Golf Course.  I wonder what the plan is for that land then?  Are they wanting to sell some of the land for development?  

----

And I heard you went ahead and files as a write-in candidate Matthew.  I'm going to be having some questions for you then as a candidate very soon!  And I am still researching my socialist/capitalist comparisons.  It's hard to find material that isn't blantantly biased one way or the other though.

Kris
by haydiz on Fri Feb 06 15:31:28 CST 2009
Wait a minute.  What am I thinking?  If we use the Stephen Decatur option, Eisenhower would still be open but renovated.  So there wouldn't be any vacant school buildings.  It's been a long week.

Kris
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