spcrnr Open Thread for the Week of October 11 pdf
by matthew on Sun Oct 11 00:00:00 CDT 2009
Some of our most productive and interesting conversations have come from open threads where almost anything goes. Speaker's Corner is a topic that is dedicated to open-conversation about almost anything that's on your mind.
The real Speaker's Corner is located in the north-east corner of London's Hyde Park where public speaking is allowed. There is no immunity from the law at speaker's corner, and while the police tend to be tolerant, they do not allow profanity or unlawful behavior. You may be jeered, ridiculed, enthusiastically supported, or completely ignored. Now, what's on your mind?
by Sue on Mon Oct 12 10:57:20 CDT 2009
This is Alan Grayson discussing health care on the floor of the House on 10/8/09. He sends a message to Democrats: No one elected Olympia Snowe President of the United States. And he sends a message to Republicans: No one cares about your feelings.

and: "If the President has a BLT tomorrow, the Republicans will try to ban bacon."   Too funny but sadly appearing to be too true as well....

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ery7RZ4tZ2Y 


Also this:  Senator McCain again shows that he is a class act  and in my opinion this is the correct response all Americans should have to our President being given this prize. 

“I congratulate President Obama on receiving this prestigious award. I join my fellow Americans in expressing pride in our president on this occasion,” McCain said Friday in a prepared statement.   (http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2009/10/05/daily80.html)


I'm proud that many in the world have such a high opinion of the direction our country is going and of our President. 

I think many forget what a long shot his election was just couple years ago....

Sue

by haydiz on Mon Oct 12 11:46:44 CDT 2009
"I think many forget what a long shot his election was just couple years ago...."

Oh, Sue rub it in with salt why don't you!  ;-) 

I'm looking forward to Palin's new book.  You got me to read Obama's book.  I'm going to have to get you to read Palin's.

Kris
by matthew on Mon Oct 12 12:28:31 CDT 2009
Kris - I'll read it as long as I don't have to buy it...also, to...wink...! ;-) 
by Sue on Mon Oct 12 13:02:51 CDT 2009
Kris,  I didn't mean it that way  - sorry  about that  :-}   

There is absolutely no way I could stomach a book by Sarah Palin  - absolutely no way.   I cannot stand the woman she makes me cringe. 

It's bad enough being on the road maybe 2 - 4 hours daily with the only am channels that come in clearly all over the region I cover continually blaring big mouths Limbaud,  Hannady and Laura Ingram  YUCK!!!  I often listen to static on 820 am or 580 am  or 1520 am just to NOT hear them run on and on I am so sick of them.

What is the matter with this part of the country that we have no nearby progressive talk stations?  It's hard to understand why an area with a pretty decent democratic base like Decatur or the university towns of Urbana and Normal or the political town of Springfield not a one of these - even  Peoria or St Louis - has a progessive radio station?  I listen to Byers for his local coverage (not that I agree with him always but he does a good job of covering local stuff in depth) and then immediately change channels to ANYWHERE.

And for Sarah Palin - the "pit bull in lipstick"- which I think describes her perfectly  - I don't even read articles about her.  Yuck yuck yuck - just typing her name makes me cringe no way I could hold a book written by her long enough to read it!

Sue
by haydiz on Mon Oct 12 15:42:28 CDT 2009
Hey now, I wasn't exactly an Obama fan when I read his book either.  That was at the height of the primary last year when I wanted Obama to fall of the face of the Earth.  I still have a hard time listening to any of his speeches or interviews.  I rarely watch them but for little snippets.   So if I can sort of stomach Barack Obama, you can stomach Sarah Palin.  ;-) 

I'm not sure why talk radio is mostly conservative but I guess it's a good balance since most of the major media streams are liberal.  Actually, I can stomach Limbaugh better than I can Keith Olbermann.  Both of them are awful though.  Sean Hannity is a a real dimwit.   I listen to Byers for the local stuff.  Thursday's when Osborne is on is usually good.  I usually don't listen to the show on Wednesday when Smithmeirer (spelled wrong I'm sure) is the guest.  They usually don't talk about local issues - at least when I've tuned in.

Kris
by Sue on Mon Oct 12 21:07:28 CDT 2009
Oh Kris, it doesn’t even compare this is apples and oranges - the political/ philosophical differences between Hillary and Barrack are minuet tiny differences.
 
Sarah Palin believes in shooting wolves from helicopters - Drilling for oil in public lands being preserved for our children’s children. She was the only nasty uncivil voice in the entire election cycle spewing nasty personal attacks. I heard some hard discussions but no nasty personal attacks coming from anyone but her.   And the things she attacked Obama on were personal to me. Not because they were against him but because they are attacks that could just as well have been against me. 

I also believe she is about trying to stir up hate.
 
And this is the kind of behavior she condoned and in my opinion encouraged:
 
 
 
This woman has NOTHING for me. NOTHING.
 
Sue
by Sue on Mon Oct 12 21:46:45 CDT 2009
What Sarah Palin brings out in people in is their worst not their best  -and this is no leader in my book
by haydiz on Tue Oct 13 09:19:11 CDT 2009
I don't think Palin ONLY brings out the worst in people.  I just think it's a good idea to know both sides of a story and I Iove hearing other points of view.  Isn't that what Obama is supposed to be all about?  I also love debating and it doesn't bother me one bit to have conversations with people, or be friends with people, who don't share my political point of view.   I'm not going to learn anything from someone who shares my beliefs to a tee. Politics is politics.  There's things that are far more important in life.

Sure, there's things about Palin that I question. I do think she went too negative and that was a huge mistake.   I'm not so certain she's presidential material but she is a political power to be reckoned with.  I want to know where she's coming from and why.  Doesn't mean I'll adopt her point of view but at least I'll know her side of the story.  It's American history.  It's important to learn our history from as many angles as possible.

But I won't push it.  I know where you're coming from.   I couldn't watch Obama's speech in Chicago after he won.  I still haven't watched it.  But now when I look back, I feel really dumb for being so caught up in it all. 

Kris
by Doug on Tue Oct 13 10:02:52 CDT 2009
I just can't believe that Palin is even such a political force in anything.  Her record in Alaska was really not very good.  She quit because she couldn't take the ridicule and she wants to be President?  McCain used her as a pawn and it went to her head.  The only shot McCain had was a long shot and she was it.  The reason it only took 4 months to write her book was because there really wasn't much positive to even write about.  I will read her book but it will be read as a comedy not as anything serious, plus I want to read more about the death panels she talks so much about..  The problems this Country face are very bipartisan which in turn is going to hurt everyone.  The President is not the problem with this Country. The problem is our Senate is controlled by special interest mainly the richest of the rich that care only about money and really don't care who suffers or dies in order for them to have it.  We need new Senators on both sides not just Republicans.  Greed and deregulation is what brought us to where we are and some want to continue down that path and those that don't are being torn apart by the other. 

On a different topic,  has anyone heard of any news from our hired professional on the progress of bringing any new employment opportunities to Decatur?
by haydiz on Tue Oct 13 12:05:42 CDT 2009
I think it was a big mistake for Palin to quit in Alaska.  Quitting never looks good on any resume but she was being ridiculed like no other politician in recent memory and worse than that, her family was being attacked.  Still, she should have stayed and ignored her foes.  Of course, that's kind of hard to do when you're being sued for stupid things every day of the week.  Her legal bills were astronomical fighting off silly claims of abuse that turned out to be false.  And if someone was attacking my kids, or intruding into their lives, I'd turn into a pitbull really quick too!   Obama put the brakes on that too.  He basically told the media his wife was off-limits.  They thing is, the media respected his wishes; they ignored Palin's.   All I want is a media that just reports the news and not create it.

I was watching JFK's assassination story on the History Channel over the past couple days, and it was a real history lesson to watch the events, without commentary or slanted reporting, and just see what happened through the camera's lense. 

I do agree with you Doug that congress is the bigger problem.  I think greed is the number one reason why this nation is going through the economic mess we're in now.  I would love more independent thinking people in congress.  Both political parties have been train wrecks.  They've been breeding grounds for corruption and cronyism .   A lot of people are fed up with both parties equally.

I'm also going to read Palin's book in part for the entertainment value too.  It just might be comical!

---

Well, these aren't high paying jobs but at least there's some new development in Decatur.  A Wendy's restaurant is going on on the corner of Pershing and Main, next to McDonalds.   A new CVS pharmacy is going up where the Eldorado Bowl used to be.  There's some other retailer going there too but I haven't heard who it is. 
by Sue on Tue Oct 13 12:46:18 CDT 2009
Doug, I wasn’t aware that we had a hired professional doing this? 
 
 
Kris, I agree with you on listening to both sides - in fact I used to force myself to listen to Limbaugh maybe a ½ hour a day. I have never really liked his personality. He is hateful to poor people - he used to play a song making fun of the homeless (back in the Reagan days). And he’s often very downgrading to women. Although I have to admit to laughing when he calls extreme feminists “femi-nazi’s”. When O’Reilly was on the radio I used to listen to him and to Gallagher and the Dennis Miller Show. The interview O’Reilly did with candidate Obama was a fair healthy discussion and disagreement on basic values and hard questions. 
 
I read the arguments from the conservative Heritage foundation on a number of issues and the WSJ and generally check out FOX on the internet as well as MSNBC, CBS, CNN ABC and PBS. I think Newt Gingrich is a very smart man. I liked some of the ideas of Jack Kemp. And I value the discussion/debates I sometimes have with my conservative friends.
 
But I shut off Gallagher when he started the “Barack HUSSEIN Obama” stuff - that is aiming low. Trying to make those of the different persuasion out as “evil” just doesn’t go with me from either side. I never believed George Bush was an evil guy either.  (And I appreciated it when Laura Bush who I’ve always respected stood up for Obama on giving a speech to school kids) I don’t even consider this stuff true political discussion or debate. And it’s the same type of anti intellectual personal attacks that Sarah Palin has generally favored over real discussion.  Those shows have become where ALL they do ALL day is pick to pieces every little tiny silly thing they can find about Obama and democrats- it’s just continual. I don’t see it as productive discussion or even interesting. Just like the Congressman from Florida said if Obama ate a BLT tomorrow they’d be against bacon. Had Hillary won you would be seeing them doing the same to her. Hopefully those people don’t truly represent the republican side.  Personally I believe there is truth to be found in arguments from both the left and the right. I would really welcome hearing responsible thoughtful republican discussion on issues. But not this stuff. I have many good friends -good people - who are republicans or independents more centrist than I and I totally respect their views - sometimes I even agree with them.
 
Sue
 
Ps - I’ll tell you a talk show host I really like who is smart, thoughtful and liberal - Ron Reagan Jr.
by Doug on Tue Oct 13 13:14:38 CDT 2009
Doug, I wasn’t aware that we had a hired professional doing this? 

I may of misheard but didn't this Council say that it wasn't their job and that it should be left to the professionals?

More restaurants were really growing now!

As far as respecting the families of politicians I think the President has earned that respect. I don't care if its Obama or Bush the family should be left out of politics.   Both Presidents kept them out of the issues where as Palin through her kids into it to gain votes there is no denying that. The things with Obama is nothing more than smear tactics from the right to take attention off of what they have done to this Country by deregulation and paybacks from the oil and insurance industries.....oh and the wars.  Palin has spewed so many lies its no wonder McCain got away from her the day after the election.  The idea of the Dems and Repubs working together is just an idea it won't happen for many years to come because they now have the I will get even with you mentality!
by Sue on Tue Oct 13 13:17:58 CDT 2009
Also one of the reasons Palin has been so attacked is because she came out with nasty mean spirited attacks - right from start - when nobody knew her or had any preconceived ideas regarding her.  I consider it karma she's only got back what she gave. 

Sue
by Sue on Tue Oct 13 13:24:02 CDT 2009
Doug,  I don't know - we'll have to find out.  Maybe let's ask at the next CONO meeting. 

I really think working together would be worthy goal - and I really think most Americans are somewhere in the middle and would be happier with solutions that have real input from both sides even when the democrats won.  Heck the democrats are such a diverse group I heard someone - it was one of the liberal talk show guys  tell a caller that was suggesting Obama needs to force them to vote for the public option -  he said that would be like "herding cats"  LOL

Sue  
by haydiz on Tue Oct 13 14:42:44 CDT 2009
I agree Palin probably brought much wrath on herself due to her own actions but that doesn't excuse attacking her family.  That's low.

But she rocked the RNC.  I was taken aback by it.  It was too nasty for me and I wrote that then.  I was disappointed.  I was wanting her to be a positive force for real change.  However, she didn't really say anything that wasn't true that I recall at the RNC.  Obama hadn't accomplished much in congress or in his years in our state's government.  He did make himself look silly with his styrofoam greek columns and the god-like persona he was trying to impress on everyone.  Hillary mocked him for that too during the primary.  Obama isn't the most modest, humble man on the planet.  He has flaws too - like all of us.








by Sue on Tue Oct 13 18:11:30 CDT 2009
You are 100% right regarding her kids.  Kids should be off limits.  And maybe you forgot but Obama defended her on that point and her religion as well.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-defends-p.html 

I'm not calling Obama perfect but he did a very good job of not making personal attacks and trying to take the high road.  I think his campaign workers were directed to try and stay away from that nasty tone too.   So to a certain degree due to this he earned those greek columns ;-]   And blaming him for being able to draw big crowds and being an inspiring speaker is that really fair?

Palin was the main person who took that nasty direction and in doing so "rocked the RNC" NOT to their credit in my book. 

I think getting away from demonizing people who chose public service would be one of the best things we could do to improve our democracy.  It is my personal belief that probably most people who run for office do so out of a strong desire to improve our country.  If you can't do it that way just how can you do it?

Sue
by haydiz on Wed Oct 14 08:11:24 CDT 2009
I can't argue with you Sue.  You make a lot of good points.

Kris
by Sue on Wed Oct 14 10:39:22 CDT 2009
Thanks Kris.   
 
Here is my new beef: 
 
I’ve decided that politicians don’t make enough money.   How they can stand the job I really really do not know? We the fickle public tell them time and time again that we don’t like it when they make “political” decisions but time and time again we kick them down the road when DON’T make “political” decisions and instead act to do what they believe is right regardless of how it will appear!!
 
Here is quote from Dick Armey regarding the Tea Parties that got me started:
 
“I think it was a bad, bad political decision,” Armey said of the 34 Senate Republicans and 91 House Republicans who voted for the TARP bailout, “and if you talk to grass-roots activists, it has become a political test for them.”
 
I bolded and underlined “political” above….   The correct move “politically” in the financial collapse of a year ago would have been to just let the economy collapse probably take the entire world economy down with delve us into a worldwide depression. Let the people really suffer 1st and then come in as a savior and fix things - but by preventing it - well, there is NO credit given for that none….
 
This type of thing really angers me. It makes me wonder if democracy is a smart idea…
 
Sue
by haydiz on Wed Oct 14 10:58:37 CDT 2009
"It makes me wonder if democracy is a smart idea…"

People are funny and difficult to work with. It's impossible to make everyone happy all the time.  It doesn't matter who you are, what you're saying, or how right you may be, someone will complain and find fault but I don't see that as bad.  I think it's necessary in a healthy democracy.  It's a pain in the rear but it's part of the equation.  We need the give and take, back and forth exchanges of ideas and philosophies to find the best solutions.  The problem is, there's not very many people in congress who are satisfied with the middle ground.  Too many want it their way or the highway.  Life just doesn't work like that.  So often times, nothing gets done.

And the rivalry and team mentality of both political parties isn't a good thing.  We want the other side to lose, at all costs, even if it's detremntal to our country.  Like with the democrats wanted Bush to fail in Iraq.  That's stupid.  Or now when the republicans want Obama's policies to fail and send us into a depression so they can be elected next time.  That's dumb too.  The welfare of the nation should come first, political party not even in a top ten list.  But I understand it. It becomes a rivalry, like how we root for sports teams.  We want our team to win and the other to lose.  It's human nature.

Kris
by haydiz on Wed Oct 14 11:00:09 CDT 2009
oops sorry for all the typos but I think you get my drift ;-)
by Sue on Thu Oct 15 07:01:57 CDT 2009

I agree that the discussion/disagreement is healthy.   My concern is the lack of effort people put behind their argument.  It seems to me many people but more effort in to understanding sports then they put into understanding their government or current events.

And I completely agree with you that we need more in congress satisfied with a middle ground.   I think we need to go with actually doing "the part we can agree on"  instead of drawing lines in the sand and posturing.  I do believe there is usually a different point of view that has it's truths as well.

On the health care front - one part I agree with Republicans on is that we are more careful with money that comes directly from our pockets then we are with tax dollars even though it actually comes from us too.  I think some of the reason our health care is so expensive is because we never see the costs prior to choosing something. And that's why I  kinda like the high deductable plans with Health Saving Accounts that some republicans support.  However the insurance needs to cover basic preventative - to encourage people to do it.   Or we could go with more clinics too.

I wonder if we went to open primaries if it would help lesson the extreme partisenship that we see?

Sue
 

by Sue on Sat Oct 17 13:23:46 CDT 2009
Here is the real news that "news" barely told you about:

President Obama and President George H. W. Bush speaking at Texas A&M regarding the importance of service.

President Bush's introduction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkD0hE0KAGE

Part 1 - President Obama's speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YnJbZsYgUc&feature=related

Part 2 - President Obama's speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w4PTlCjMn8&feature=related

It is more beneficial for the media to accent our differences and stir up bad feelings and nastiness then to focus on what we share.

Sue
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